diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditRules.h b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditRules.h
index eb97e6c6b18..e8818ad8cfa 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditRules.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditRules.h
@@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, nsRulesInfo *aInfo, nsresult aResult)=0;
   NS_IMETHOD GetFlags(PRUint32 *aFlags)=0;
   NS_IMETHOD SetFlags(PRUint32 aFlags)=0;
-
+  NS_IMETHOD DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)=0;
 };
 
 #endif //nsEditRules_h__
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditor.h b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditor.h
index 0db1f18d774..9a66efcf106 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditor.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditor.h
@@ -121,6 +121,9 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD BeginTransaction();
   NS_IMETHOD EndTransaction();
 
+  // pure virtual, because the definition of 'empty' depends on the doc type
+  NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)=0;
+
   // file handling
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentModified(PRBool *outDocModified);
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentCharacterSet(PRUnichar** characterSet);
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditorShell.cpp b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditorShell.cpp
index 870ecc796f4..da7e6c61ff1 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditorShell.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsEditorShell.cpp
@@ -2019,15 +2019,9 @@ nsEditorShell::GetEditorDocument(nsIDOMDocument** aEditorDocument)
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsEditorShell::GetEditorSelection(nsIDOMSelection** aEditorSelection)
 {
-
-  if (mEditor)
-  {
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor>  editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
-    if (editor)
-    {
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor>  editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
       return editor->GetSelection(aEditorSelection);
-    }
-  }
   
   return NS_NOINTERFACE;
 }
@@ -2043,6 +2037,27 @@ nsEditorShell::GetDocumentModified(PRBool *aDocumentModified)
 }
 
 
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsEditorShell::GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor> editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
+    return editor->GetDocumentIsEmpty(aDocumentIsEmpty);
+
+  return NS_NOINTERFACE;
+}
+
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsEditorShell::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aDocumentLength)
+{
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIHTMLEditor> editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
+    return editor->GetDocumentLength(aDocumentLength);
+
+  return NS_NOINTERFACE;
+}
+
+
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsEditorShell::InsertList(const PRUnichar *listType)
 {
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp b/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
index 18bf69e0632..a3d17891d51 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
@@ -2334,6 +2334,18 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::ScrollIntoView(PRBool aScrollToBegin)
 */
 
 
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aDocumentIsEmpty)
+    return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
+  
+  if (!mRules)
+    return NS_ERROR_NOT_INITIALIZED;
+  
+  return mRules->DocumentIsEmpty(aDocumentIsEmpty);
+}
+
 
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount)                                              
@@ -2343,6 +2355,16 @@ nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount)
   // initialize out params
   *aCount = 0;
   
+  // special-case for empty document, to account for the bogus text node
+  PRBool docEmpty;
+  result = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+  if (NS_FAILED(result)) return result;
+  if (docEmpty)
+  {
+    *aCount = 0;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+  
   nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMSelection> sel;
   result = GetSelection(getter_AddRefs(sel));
   if (NS_FAILED(result)) return result;
@@ -3017,6 +3039,24 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToString(nsString& aOutputString,
 //  }
 //  else
 //  { // default processing
+
+
+    nsresult rv = NS_OK;
+    
+    // special-case for empty document when requesting plain text,
+    // to account for the bogus text node
+    if (aFormatType == "text/plain")
+    {
+      PRBool docEmpty;
+      rv = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+      if (NS_FAILED(rv)) return rv;
+      
+      if (docEmpty) {
+        aOutputString = "";
+        return NS_OK;
+      }
+    }
+
     nsCOMPtr<nsIDocumentEncoder> encoder;
     char* progid = (char *)nsAllocator::Alloc(strlen(NS_DOC_ENCODER_PROGID_BASE) + aFormatType.Length() + 1);
     if (! progid)
@@ -3025,7 +3065,7 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToString(nsString& aOutputString,
     char* type = aFormatType.ToNewCString();
     strcat(progid, type);
     nsCRT::free(type);
-    nsresult rv = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(progid,
+    rv = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(progid,
                                             nsnull,
                                             nsIDocumentEncoder::GetIID(),
                                             getter_AddRefs(encoder));
@@ -3084,7 +3124,21 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToStream(nsIOutputStream* aOutputStream,
                                            const nsString* aCharset,
                                            PRUint32 aFlags)
 {
+
   nsresult rv;
+
+  // special-case for empty document when requesting plain text,
+  // to account for the bogus text node
+  if (aFormatType == "text/plain")
+  {
+    PRBool docEmpty;
+    rv = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+    if (NS_FAILED(rv)) return rv;
+    
+    if (docEmpty)
+       return NS_OK;    // output nothing
+  }
+
   nsCOMPtr<nsIDocumentEncoder> encoder;
   char* progid = (char *)nsAllocator::Alloc(strlen(NS_DOC_ENCODER_PROGID_BASE) + aFormatType.Length() + 1);
   if (! progid)
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.h b/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.h
index 70a037019ed..adc834c548e 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.h
@@ -60,6 +60,7 @@ public:
 
   /* ------------ nsIHTMLEditor methods -------------- */
 
+  NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty);
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount);
   NS_IMETHOD SetMaxTextLength(PRInt32 aMaxTextLength);
   NS_IMETHOD GetMaxTextLength(PRInt32& aMaxTextLength);
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp b/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
index f9ce3193f59..cc6d9a29998 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
@@ -194,7 +194,17 @@ nsTextEditRules::DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection,
   }
   return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
 }
+
+
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsTextEditRules::DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aDocumentIsEmpty)
+    return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
   
+  *aDocumentIsEmpty = (mBogusNode.get() != nsnull);
+  return NS_OK;
+}
 
 /********************************************************
  *  Protected methods 
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h b/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
index fec23ca66e6..7b6663a26a4 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
@@ -54,6 +54,7 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, nsRulesInfo *aInfo, nsresult aResult);
   NS_IMETHOD GetFlags(PRUint32 *aFlags);
   NS_IMETHOD SetFlags(PRUint32 aFlags);
+  NS_IMETHOD DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty);
 
   // nsTextEditRules action id's
   enum 
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/composer/src/nsEditorShell.cpp b/mozilla/editor/composer/src/nsEditorShell.cpp
index 870ecc796f4..da7e6c61ff1 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/composer/src/nsEditorShell.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/composer/src/nsEditorShell.cpp
@@ -2019,15 +2019,9 @@ nsEditorShell::GetEditorDocument(nsIDOMDocument** aEditorDocument)
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsEditorShell::GetEditorSelection(nsIDOMSelection** aEditorSelection)
 {
-
-  if (mEditor)
-  {
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor>  editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
-    if (editor)
-    {
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor>  editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
       return editor->GetSelection(aEditorSelection);
-    }
-  }
   
   return NS_NOINTERFACE;
 }
@@ -2043,6 +2037,27 @@ nsEditorShell::GetDocumentModified(PRBool *aDocumentModified)
 }
 
 
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsEditorShell::GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIEditor> editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
+    return editor->GetDocumentIsEmpty(aDocumentIsEmpty);
+
+  return NS_NOINTERFACE;
+}
+
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsEditorShell::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aDocumentLength)
+{
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIHTMLEditor> editor = do_QueryInterface(mEditor);
+  if (editor)
+    return editor->GetDocumentLength(aDocumentLength);
+
+  return NS_NOINTERFACE;
+}
+
+
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsEditorShell::InsertList(const PRUnichar *listType)
 {
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/idl/nsIEditorShell.idl b/mozilla/editor/idl/nsIEditorShell.idl
index 0970b03fd5a..2b19366fc7c 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/idl/nsIEditorShell.idl
+++ b/mozilla/editor/idl/nsIEditorShell.idl
@@ -47,9 +47,11 @@ interface nsIEditorShell : nsISupports
   };
 %}
   readonly attribute boolean              documentModified;
+  readonly attribute boolean              documentIsEmpty;
+  readonly attribute long                 documentLength;
   
-  attribute wstring    paragraphFormat;
-  attribute long       wrapColumn;
+  attribute wstring                       paragraphFormat;
+  attribute long                          wrapColumn;
    
   /* Setup */
   void SetEditorType(in wstring editorType);
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditRules.h b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditRules.h
index eb97e6c6b18..e8818ad8cfa 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditRules.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditRules.h
@@ -48,7 +48,7 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, nsRulesInfo *aInfo, nsresult aResult)=0;
   NS_IMETHOD GetFlags(PRUint32 *aFlags)=0;
   NS_IMETHOD SetFlags(PRUint32 aFlags)=0;
-
+  NS_IMETHOD DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)=0;
 };
 
 #endif //nsEditRules_h__
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditor.h b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditor.h
index 0db1f18d774..9a66efcf106 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditor.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/base/nsEditor.h
@@ -121,6 +121,9 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD BeginTransaction();
   NS_IMETHOD EndTransaction();
 
+  // pure virtual, because the definition of 'empty' depends on the doc type
+  NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)=0;
+
   // file handling
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentModified(PRBool *outDocModified);
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentCharacterSet(PRUnichar** characterSet);
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
index 18bf69e0632..a3d17891d51 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
@@ -2334,6 +2334,18 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::ScrollIntoView(PRBool aScrollToBegin)
 */
 
 
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aDocumentIsEmpty)
+    return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
+  
+  if (!mRules)
+    return NS_ERROR_NOT_INITIALIZED;
+  
+  return mRules->DocumentIsEmpty(aDocumentIsEmpty);
+}
+
 
 NS_IMETHODIMP
 nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount)                                              
@@ -2343,6 +2355,16 @@ nsHTMLEditor::GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount)
   // initialize out params
   *aCount = 0;
   
+  // special-case for empty document, to account for the bogus text node
+  PRBool docEmpty;
+  result = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+  if (NS_FAILED(result)) return result;
+  if (docEmpty)
+  {
+    *aCount = 0;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+  
   nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMSelection> sel;
   result = GetSelection(getter_AddRefs(sel));
   if (NS_FAILED(result)) return result;
@@ -3017,6 +3039,24 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToString(nsString& aOutputString,
 //  }
 //  else
 //  { // default processing
+
+
+    nsresult rv = NS_OK;
+    
+    // special-case for empty document when requesting plain text,
+    // to account for the bogus text node
+    if (aFormatType == "text/plain")
+    {
+      PRBool docEmpty;
+      rv = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+      if (NS_FAILED(rv)) return rv;
+      
+      if (docEmpty) {
+        aOutputString = "";
+        return NS_OK;
+      }
+    }
+
     nsCOMPtr<nsIDocumentEncoder> encoder;
     char* progid = (char *)nsAllocator::Alloc(strlen(NS_DOC_ENCODER_PROGID_BASE) + aFormatType.Length() + 1);
     if (! progid)
@@ -3025,7 +3065,7 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToString(nsString& aOutputString,
     char* type = aFormatType.ToNewCString();
     strcat(progid, type);
     nsCRT::free(type);
-    nsresult rv = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(progid,
+    rv = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(progid,
                                             nsnull,
                                             nsIDocumentEncoder::GetIID(),
                                             getter_AddRefs(encoder));
@@ -3084,7 +3124,21 @@ NS_IMETHODIMP nsHTMLEditor::OutputToStream(nsIOutputStream* aOutputStream,
                                            const nsString* aCharset,
                                            PRUint32 aFlags)
 {
+
   nsresult rv;
+
+  // special-case for empty document when requesting plain text,
+  // to account for the bogus text node
+  if (aFormatType == "text/plain")
+  {
+    PRBool docEmpty;
+    rv = GetDocumentIsEmpty(&docEmpty);
+    if (NS_FAILED(rv)) return rv;
+    
+    if (docEmpty)
+       return NS_OK;    // output nothing
+  }
+
   nsCOMPtr<nsIDocumentEncoder> encoder;
   char* progid = (char *)nsAllocator::Alloc(strlen(NS_DOC_ENCODER_PROGID_BASE) + aFormatType.Length() + 1);
   if (! progid)
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.h b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.h
index 70a037019ed..adc834c548e 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.h
@@ -60,6 +60,7 @@ public:
 
   /* ------------ nsIHTMLEditor methods -------------- */
 
+  NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty);
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentLength(PRInt32 *aCount);
   NS_IMETHOD SetMaxTextLength(PRInt32 aMaxTextLength);
   NS_IMETHOD GetMaxTextLength(PRInt32& aMaxTextLength);
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
index f9ce3193f59..cc6d9a29998 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
@@ -194,7 +194,17 @@ nsTextEditRules::DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection,
   }
   return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
 }
+
+
+NS_IMETHODIMP
+nsTextEditRules::DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aDocumentIsEmpty)
+    return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
   
+  *aDocumentIsEmpty = (mBogusNode.get() != nsnull);
+  return NS_OK;
+}
 
 /********************************************************
  *  Protected methods 
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
index fec23ca66e6..7b6663a26a4 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
@@ -54,6 +54,7 @@ public:
   NS_IMETHOD DidDoAction(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, nsRulesInfo *aInfo, nsresult aResult);
   NS_IMETHOD GetFlags(PRUint32 *aFlags);
   NS_IMETHOD SetFlags(PRUint32 aFlags);
+  NS_IMETHOD DocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty);
 
   // nsTextEditRules action id's
   enum 
diff --git a/mozilla/editor/public/nsIEditor.h b/mozilla/editor/public/nsIEditor.h
index 4ba0a8eefe3..9ee836678cf 100644
--- a/mozilla/editor/public/nsIEditor.h
+++ b/mozilla/editor/public/nsIEditor.h
@@ -109,6 +109,10 @@ public:
 
 
   /* ------------ Document info and file methods -------------- */
+  
+  /** Returns true if the document has no *meaningful* content */
+  NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentIsEmpty(PRBool *aDocumentIsEmpty)=0;
+  
   /** Returns true if the document is modifed and needs saving */
   NS_IMETHOD GetDocumentModified(PRBool *outDocModified)=0;